I am a student and am writing a paper for a course on homosexuality in the Bible. I intend to use differing perspectives in my essay, and analyze how these different perspectives have changed over time and interacted with each other. I respectfully request an interview with someone from your church – I feel that your opinion would be valuable and highly relevant to my paper.
Thank you very much for being willing to answer a few of my questions. It is an immense help in writing my paper, and I truly appreciate it. I checked the website you sent me as well as the sister websites, and was unable to find the answer to these next questions. I want to preface my questions with the general understanding that I mean absolutely no disrespect or disdain in anyway shape or form – the way I am organizing my paper is I am using your (as well as other fundamentalist churches) responses as the counter arguments to the viewpoints of more contemporary churches. I use the terms ‘contemporary’ and ‘fundamentalist’ with the understanding that ‘contemporary’ means more mainstream today, and ‘fundamentalist’ means more traditional. Again, I mean no disrespect with either term, and I am using all responses in a completely educational way.
Hello, Vladimir – understood. We are happy to respond, and answers to your specific questions are noted below, immediately following each question.
1.) People that are opposed to homosexuality often site the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19: God destroyed the towns because of the sexual impurity and same sex desires of the men that wanted to rape the angels in disguise. Proponents of LGBT equality take a different stance, saying God destroyed the two towns not because the men were homosexual, but because of the desires of the men to rape the strangers. Proponents also state that male rape was commonly used as a form of humiliation, dating back to how the Romans asserted their dominance over prisoners of war. Could God have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah both because of the rape, and the homosexual tendencies? I am interested in your thoughts.
A: Early on in our ministry about this nation’s grievous error in the acceptance of homosexuality (and all the attendant errors that involves…see Romans 1), we came upon a Methodist bishop and his wife who were virulently opposed to our Bible-based words and merciful message of warning. It turns out that of their three sons, two of them were fags who had wholly given themselves over to that sin, contracted AIDS and died in somewhat rapid succession. As I read the story of those boys, it was with deep and somber sorrow that I read one of the core enablers of that behavior – which resulted in their DEATH – was their grandmother who swapped theories with them about what actually happened around the stark destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and talked them out of the plain words and unassailable message there taught: fags doom nations. (Hello, is this thing on? Isn’t the number one job of parents and grandparents to keep the children alive?!?) So start with that. Read the plain words. Heed them. Stay alive. From there, it appears your question takes this odd turn: did that stark and amazing, destructive outpouring of God’s wrath occur because the behavior rampant there was felonious rape as well as fag debauchery? Hmmmm…okay. Let us go to the words. And if the plain words of Genesis chapter 19 don’t tell the story clearly enough, go to the words at Jude verse 7, which enlighten further: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” Pretty clear. It was behavior given over to (not behavior feloniously engaged in) that brought God’s vengeance raining down on them. But, how about we say this: stay away from both fag sex and felonious violent rape.
2.) People also cite Leviticus 18 and 20 when opposing homosexuality, as Leviticus explicitly declares homosexuality an abomination. LGBT activists point out how Leviticus also declares eating shellfish an abomination and being a native Marylander, crabs are one of my all time favorite foods. What is your opinion on this matter? Is there any room at all for interpretation, or should the Bible be taken strictly for what it says, since it is the word of God?
A: Ru-roh, here comes the shellfish straw man, propped up again to get smacked around in the pretense that there’s not a clear, axiomatic distinction between moral law and dietary/ceremonial law, and in the pretense that the distinction is not both (a) specified in scripture and (b) written on the DNA of every human. Hang onto your hat straw man, here we go again:
There was amongst the law given to Moses a dietary code. You find it in Leviticus 11. The part about fish says this:
Leviticus 11:10-12 “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.”
Not that God has to give his creatures whom he created and whose breath of life he holds in his hand, over whom he is the potter, with whom he will do as he wills, any explanation; but even so being a kind and just God, he told us why he had a dietary code, at the end of Leviticus 11, here:
Leviticus 11:45-47 “For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.”
And again at Leviticus 20:22-26 “Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people. Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.”
This is a powerfully important lesson for the depraved hearts of mankind – the requirement that you put a distinction between that which is holy and that which is unholy. It recurs in the Scriptures. Here are some examples:
Job 14:3-4 “And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.”
Jeremiah 15:19 “Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.”
Isaiah 52:10-11 “ The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.”
Ezekiel 22:23-28 – a perfect description of the lying whore false prophets who pretend to speak in the name of God, like charlatan Rick Warren:
“And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation. There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.”
Ezekiel 44:21-23 – instead these lying false prophets were supposed to do this:” Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court. Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before. And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.”
2 Corinthians 6:4, 15-18. (no need pretending this concept is Old Testament only; there’s one God, one Word!) “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”
Beyond those important ceremonial laws, including dietary codes, there were moral laws, the violation of which brought the death penalty — including violation of the prohibition against fag sex. Your argument that mixes these two is made to suggest it’s perfectly fine to be a filthy fag, much like it must be fine to eat those Maryland crabs. So, tell you what: if you really believe it’s wrong to eat shellfish, and that it is on par with those death penalty offenses, then don’t eat the shellfish. But in fact there are more lies in that little game of patty-cake played by self-serving selfish haters who want to enable the sins of others so as to distract from their own sins. First, there was no death penalty for violating the dietary code. It is clear in the Law of Moses when the death penalty applied. Just get a Bible and a concordance and search in the law for “put to death” or “stoned” in Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy. The death penalty applied for:
- Touching the mount. Step away from the wrath of God!
• Smiting a man.
• Smiting your father or mother.
• Stealing and selling a man.
• Cursing your father or mother.
• Lying with a beast.
• Failing to keep the Sabbath holy; working on the Sabbath.
• Turning your children over to the false god Molech.
• Committing adultery with another man’s wife; both the man and woman were put to death.
• Lying with your father’s wife.
• Lying with your daughter-in-law.
• Lying with mankind as with womankind.
• Having a familiar spirit or being a wizard.
• Blaspheming the name of God.
• Doing the job of the Levites/coming into the tabernacle or sanctuary, or into the veil, where the Levites were to be, when you were not a Levite.
• Being a lying false prophet, a dreamer of dreams, who tries to turn you away from the Lord your God, to serve false gods.
• Being a stubborn and rebellious child who will not obey his parents.
• Being a mother, brother, son, daughter, wife or friend who tries to get you to go serve other gods.
The death penalty was for grievous violations of the moral laws; the ultimate organic laws of God. These laws are written on every human’s heart; if this rebellious disobedient nation put a tithe of these laws back on the books in doomed america, this nation would be repenting and would be saved. But this nation thinks itself smarter than God; so it mocks this standard and in every particularly violates it, every day.
Second, the dietary code was repealed, by the great Lawgiver himself; he wrote the law in the first place, through Moses; he repealed the law when he wanted to, through Peter. Here are the words:
Acts 10:9-16, 34-48; & 11:1-18 “On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven … Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: ) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them. But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying, I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven. And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”
Just look at these powerful events and the profound concept they import! This wasn’t some arbitrary, capricious or meaningless repeal of the law God engaged in (any more than when the law was first given). This was the means by which the point was made that he was going to the Gentiles to call out a people for his name, because the Jews had disobeyed him for so long, and rebelled against him, until he left them for a season! This was a key part of the covenant of God with the Jews, and with mankind; it is at your peril that you use it like some doggie-chew-toy in blasphemous dialogue, spinning out flippant and false tales to justify the sins of this nation.
Peter told about this experience he had in Acts 10, time and again; one of the oft-addressed topics by Paul and Peter was the repealing of the dietary code, and the fact that the Gentiles were not bound by the dietary laws. The lesson was done; the school master was finished on this point; Christ came to this earth and died and rose again and thereby perfected the law. The lessons of the dietary code were no longer necessary, including because God had a different way to show the earth dwellers his sanctified (carved out/separated) people other than what they did or did not eat. There was a more powerful lesson to learn, going to the Gentiles, so that God’s elect from all nations and tongues would be called out during the church era. When you create your own universe and race, you can write the laws the way you want. Meanwhile, the Great One has given you his law. The dietary code no longer applies.
3.) In the New Testament, Paul writes a letter in which he says “even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way, the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.” Old Testament passages tend to be more easily dismissed by the majority just because of the archaic nature of the Old Testament and how many believe Jesus giving his life saved us from many rituals the Old Testament demands. Whether or not that is what God truly wants for His people, everyone can agree that LGBT activists have had an incredibly hard time finding holy acceptance when confronted with Paul’s letter. They point to his use of the word ‘natural,’ and say that homosexual tendencies were unnatural for this time period, with ‘unnatural’ being synonymous with ‘uncommon.’ Proponents also point to how same sex tendencies would likely be outlawed during this time because of population counts being down, and a lack of safe sex practices present, making same sex tendencies inherently more dangerous. What are your thoughts on that?
A: Well, since you asked … J It’s a real bummer trying to make that which is profane and abominable somehow acceptable to God. Stop that. His words, in both testaments, are clear and compelling and command obedience. This vain babbling is just a silly, torturous act that will lead to death and destruction. Shut up that talk; you’re embarrassing yourself up in here.
4.) Different denominations of Christianity have different views on homosexuality: some denominations believe it is okay to have same sex desires, but never act on them. Some believe that homosexuality is acceptable. Some believe homosexuality can be cured. If a member of your church approached you and said they gave into their same sex tendencies, but wish to repent, would they be excommunicated from the congregation?
A: There are only two types of humans — Jacobs (who are given the precious gifts of saving faith and repentance from sin) and Esaus (who run their self-justifying mouths but will not submit themselves to grateful obedience and do not receive that merciful gift of repentance though they seek it – read, demand it, with tears – read, rage). There would be no member of this humble, trembling with gratitude, flock of slaughter who would approach any other and say they are a practicing fag but wish to not be. Read that again. Those words would never come from the mouth of a gentle, grateful, evil-eschewing member of this church. It simply would not happen. You spend way too much time in fantasy land, spinning out fairy tales, and it’s because you have been given over to delusions. You know how I know that? Because you say so below when you say “I am personally in favor of LGBT equality.” You simply cannot think clearly and correctly about these vital matters, Vladimir. That’s a bad circumstance for you to be in, and I would not dare leave this exchange without telling you that you should fear and obey God TODAY and shush up.
5.) This is an incredibly off-topic question, so if you are pressed for time, feel free to skip it. I work for a children’s theater and am studying different forms of marketing. I am unsure if you are involved with the marketing of WBC at all, but I think that whatever marketing techniques you use are astounding: everyone knows who you are. Do you have any advice for a small business trying to get on it’s feet, with regards to marketing?
A: The King of Eternity – who opens doors that none can shut – puts all of this nation’s vaunted marketing prowess to shame. Here’s the deal: We wake up in the morning with this delight in our heart: we get to serve the LORD our God this day, and we hang on for the ride and sing His praises as we go. It’s a wonderful adventure and a marvelous work of His hand and we run to do His bidding, knowing with absolute certainty that we could not possibly imagine what he has arranged in great detail. It’s like the directive that we make way for his vengeance; we are amateurs. Likewise, we are amateurs in the publishing, communicating and marketing departments. When he says to go into all the world and preach, he means that – and so we seek His face in all our doings, and go where He sends us … then we stand back and watch the words flow to every nook and cranny, including right into the eyes of Vladimir! You lucky duck.
Let me say once again that I mean no disrespect at all by any question. I am personally in favor of LGBT equality, but that preference will not be shown in my paper, it is completely objective and I am only using responses in an educational manner.
Thank you for your time,
Vladimir